Burning fat vs. muscle, bulking up

[AndyHancock]

I posted this on misc.fitness.misc without response, hoping for some
response here.

I've done quite a bit of reading on exercise physiology (hope I'm not
mangling official terminology too much here). I understand that the
first part of exercise burns glucose/glycogen, then fat starts to get
burned.

At
http://caloriecount.about.com/exactly-happens-hungry-process-ft38999,
drcrystallee says that fat is burned when body is at rest. However,
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:x5VfT0QZApgJ:cftrainer.com/blog1
says:

GH [is a] fat burning [hormone]...To maximize fat loss...intense
anaerobic exercise...Reaching the anaerobic threshold...to improve
GH...Intense anaerobic exercise signals the body to release GH.
Long aerobic activities (jogging, etc) will NOT increase GH.

Then, flipping back once again,
http://www.womengetfit.net/page.aspx?pageid=e9d4719b-8dde-469f-81be-9...
says "If you are looking to burn fat while doing cardio, remember to
keep the intensity level low, with going as high as 60-70% of your
max".

It almost seems like there are two modes of fat burning. One during
the exercise, and the other when not exercising (when the amount of
muscle mass you have is responsible the burning). However, the
conflicting statements above about intense anaerobic vs. 60-70% of max
(I presume VO2 max) both seem to apply to the period during exercise.

My preconception to date was that walking a kilometer has a higher
ratio of fat-to-sugar usage than running or more intense anaerobic
exercises. Regardless of its veracity, this is a bit of a digression
because the truly foggy part is what conditions cause preference for
fat versus muscle (especially when glucose/glycogen is used up).

My strategy has been pretty simple so far...eat chocolate bar before a
workout that consists of 1.5 hours of anaerobic, half hour stretching,
then 45 min of what might constitute aerobic (shadow boxing, other
skills/techniques-based conditioning). Consume plenty of fruits,
simple carbs, and meat in approx 1 hour after the workout. The
anaerobic focuses on a middle ground between bulk and tone; I am
trying to get smart about shifting just a tiny bit over to the bulk
side, but nothing ever changes. At
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/endurance-training/burning-fat-vs-b...,
mammalspod implies that the lengthy workout could be the problem, but
at
https://www.elitefitness.com/forum/diet-bodybuilding/does-your-body-b...,
fhg43 implies that exercising beyond 30 min causes fat (rather than
muscle) to burn.

Thanks for any thoughts on this. Note that I'm not looking for
extremes, or to be extremely cut/defined with too little fat. Just a
little more shift from fat to muscle, and a bit more volume in the
muscle.

[AndyHancock]

I've cross-posted to rec.martial-arts in hopes of getting a response,
and in order to get the perspective of those likely to lean toward
tone, and mix up strength training with aggressive stretching and
drilling in technique.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: AndyHancock <***@gmail.com>
Date: May 27, 11:28 pm
Subject: Burning fat vs. muscle, bulking up
To: misc.fitness.weights


I posted this on misc.fitness.misc without response, hoping for some
response here.

I've done quite a bit of reading on exercise physiology (hope I'm not
mangling official terminology too much here).  I understand that the
first part of exercise burns glucose/glycogen, then fat starts to get
burned.

Athttp://caloriecount.about.com/exactly-happens-hungry-process-ft38999,
drcrystallee says that fat is burned when body is at rest.
 However,http://74.125.95.132/search?
q=cache:x5VfT0QZApgJ:cftrainer.com/blog1
says:

   GH [is a] fat burning [hormone]...To maximize fat loss...intense
   anaerobic exercise...Reaching the anaerobic threshold...to improve
   GH...Intense anaerobic exercise signals the body to release GH.
   Long aerobic activities (jogging, etc) will NOT increase GH.

Then, flipping back once again,http://www.womengetfit.net/page.aspx?
pageid=e9d4719b-8dde-469f-81be-9...
says "If you are looking to burn fat while doing cardio, remember to
keep the intensity level low, with going as high as 60-70% of your
max".

It almost seems like there are two modes of fat burning.  One during
the exercise, and the other when not exercising (when the amount of
muscle mass you have is responsible the burning).  However, the
conflicting statements above about intense anaerobic vs. 60-70% of max
(I presume VO2 max) both seem to apply to the period during exercise.

My preconception to date was that walking a kilometer has a higher
ratio of fat-to-sugar usage than running or more intense anaerobic
exercises.  Regardless of its veracity, this is a bit of a digression
because the truly foggy part is what conditions cause preference for
fat versus muscle (especially when glucose/glycogen is used up).

My strategy has been pretty simple so far...eat chocolate bar before a
workout that consists of 1.5 hours of anaerobic, half hour stretching,
then 45 min of what might constitute aerobic (shadow boxing, other
skills/techniques-based conditioning).  Consume plenty of fruits,
simple carbs, and meat in approx 1 hour after the workout.  The
anaerobic focuses on a middle ground between bulk and tone; I am
trying to get smart about shifting just a tiny bit over to the bulk
side, but nothing ever changes.  Athttp://www.elitefitness.com/forum/
endurance-training/burning-fat-vs-b...,
mammalspod implies that the lengthy workout could be the problem, but
athttps://www.elitefitness.com/forum/diet-bodybuilding/does-your-body-b...,
fhg43 implies that exercising beyond 30 min causes fat (rather than
muscle) to burn.

Thanks for any thoughts on this.  Note that I'm not looking for
extremes, or to be extremely cut/defined with too little fat.  Just a
little more shift from fat to muscle, and a bit more volume in the
muscle.

[Alfred Matej]

Post by AndyHancock
I've cross-posted to rec.martial-arts in hopes of getting a response,
and in order to get the perspective of those likely to lean toward
tone, and mix up strength training with aggressive stretching and
drilling in technique.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: May 27, 11:28 pm
Subject: Burning fat vs. muscle, bulking up
To: misc.fitness.weights
I posted this on misc.fitness.misc without response, hoping for some
response here.
I've done quite a bit of reading on exercise physiology (hope I'm not
mangling official terminology too much here).  I understand that the
first part of exercise burns glucose/glycogen, then fat starts to get
burned.
Athttp://caloriecount.about.com/exactly-happens-hungry-process-ft38999,
drcrystallee says that fat is burned when body is at rest.
 However,http://74.125.95.132/search?
q=cache:x5VfT0QZApgJ:cftrainer.com/blog1
   GH [is a] fat burning [hormone]...To maximize fat loss...intense
   anaerobic exercise...Reaching the anaerobic threshold...to improve
   GH...Intense anaerobic exercise signals the body to release GH.
   Long aerobic activities (jogging, etc) will NOT increase GH.
Then, flipping back once again,http://www.womengetfit.net/page.aspx?
pageid=e9d4719b-8dde-469f-81be-9...
says "If you are looking to burn fat while doing cardio, remember to
keep the intensity level low, with going as high as 60-70% of your
max".
It almost seems like there are two modes of fat burning.  One during
the exercise, and the other when not exercising (when the amount of
muscle mass you have is responsible the burning).  However, the
conflicting statements above about intense anaerobic vs. 60-70% of max
(I presume VO2 max) both seem to apply to the period during exercise.
My preconception to date was that walking a kilometer has a higher
ratio of fat-to-sugar usage than running or more intense anaerobic
exercises.  Regardless of its veracity, this is a bit of a digression
because the truly foggy part is what conditions cause preference for
fat versus muscle (especially when glucose/glycogen is used up).
My strategy has been pretty simple so far...eat chocolate bar before a
workout that consists of 1.5 hours of anaerobic, half hour stretching,
then 45 min of what might constitute aerobic (shadow boxing, other
skills/techniques-based conditioning).  Consume plenty of fruits,
simple carbs, and meat in approx 1 hour after the workout.  The
anaerobic focuses on a middle ground between bulk and tone; I am
trying to get smart about shifting just a tiny bit over to the bulk
side, but nothing ever changes.  Athttp://www.elitefitness.com/forum/
endurance-training/burning-fat-vs-b...,
mammalspod implies that the lengthy workout could be the problem, but
athttps://www.elitefitness.com/forum/diet-bodybuilding/does-your-body-b...,
fhg43 implies that exercising beyond 30 min causes fat (rather than
muscle) to burn.
Thanks for any thoughts on this.  Note that I'm not looking for
extremes, or to be extremely cut/defined with too little fat.  Just a
little more shift from fat to muscle, and a bit more volume in the
muscle.

A quick question, are you overweight and trying to lose weight, and
possibly gain some muscle in the process? I'm not very clear what your
goals are. Also, don't say that you want to turn fat into muscle, this is a
physical impossibility.

First off, tone probably doesn't mean what you think it does. When most
people say tone, they mean lose body fat or gain muscle. You get toned
muscle by having an appreciable amount of muscle mass without layers of fat
covering the muscle.

I think you're trying to over think the whole process of burning fat.

Your body will use up its glucose stores first while exercising, but it
doesn't necesairily start using fat after the glucose stores are depleted.
It'll use whatever is available. For instance, if you were to take BCAAs
before you worked out, your sweat would start to smell like ammonia due to
your body metabolising the BCAAs.

You shouldn't over think the fine details of this process. What you really
need to remember is Energy In and Energy Out. If your body uses up more
energy than you consume that day, your body will use your fat stores for
energy. Which is what you want. For example, if you eat too much, it
doesn't matter what exercise you're doing, your body will store the excess
energy as fat. You can't get around that.

This is why you'll see some powerlifter guys who are fat as hell. They'll
eat upwards of 4,000-5,000 calories a day, knowing that they'll never work
it off throught their training. And a lot of those guys train 5-6 days a
week. They purposely consume more energy than their body needs in order to
build muscle. Some don't care so much about their bodyfat percentage and
just gorge themselves, and as a result, they pack on both muscle and fat.
You'll have some who don't want to get fat and will control their diets to
minimize fat gain.

Fat loss starts in the kitchen every time. There are aspects of diet
planning that you can do to help promote fat loss, but it still boils down
to energy in/energy out. Your body must obey the laws of thermodynamics.

If you wanna get big, you gotta eat big. Likewise, if you want to lose fat,
you gotta eat less.

About your diet, could you post what you eat on an average day? Do you keep
a food journel? You might not be eating as many calories as you think you
are.

[AndyHancock]

Not overweight, just trying to lose some minor love handles and bulk
up a bit more up top for bag work and training.

By tone, I mean high rep count per set rather than heavier weights
that only allow four to eight reps.

I have no idea what BCCA's are.

I think that caloric balance is oversimplifying the picture. When you
consume calories relative to exercise, and what kind of calories they
are, how you structure your workout, and how you schedule workouts
throughout the week are all important factors in how much the food
turns into muscle versus fat.

I haven't got it down to a science in terms of tracking calories and
what and when, but I generally (with exceptions) try to lean toward
low carb, mostly complex carbs, grazing throughout the day. Rely on
meats, nuts, 1% cottage cheese, and 2% milk for protein and iron.
After a workout, I'm less anal about carbs and indulge, but try not to
relent on the protein. My impression is that, shortly after working
out, carbs help muscles recover faster, and protein is absorbed for
shoring up muscle much more than normally.

Right now, I'm scrutinizing the structure of the workout. There are
many reasons why it has the current structure, so I'm first trying to
get an understanding of the conditions that lead to burning of fat
versus muscle. Then I'll plan modifications to the workout to balance
the muscle/fat objective with the reasons for the current workout
structure.

P.S. Repaired the links in my original post below.

---------- Original message ----------
From: Alfred Matej <***@gmail.com>
Date: May 29, 12:54 am

A quick question, are you overweight and trying to lose weight, and
possibly gain some muscle in the process? I'm not very clear what your
goals are. Also, don't say that you want to turn fat into muscle, this
is a physical impossibility.

First off, tone probably doesn't mean what you think it does. When
most people say tone, they mean lose body fat or gain muscle. You get
toned muscle by having an appreciable amount of muscle mass without
layers of fat covering the muscle.

I think you're trying to over think the whole process of burning fat.

Your body will use up its glucose stores first while exercising, but
it doesn't necesairily start using fat after the glucose stores are
depleted. It'll use whatever is available. For instance, if you were
to take BCAAs before you worked out, your sweat would start to smell
like ammonia due to your body metabolising the BCAAs.

You shouldn't over think the fine details of this process. What you
really need to remember is Energy In and Energy Out. If your body uses
up more energy than you consume that day, your body will use your fat
stores for energy. Which is what you want. For example, if you eat too
much, it doesn't matter what exercise you're doing, your body will
store the excess energy as fat. You can't get around that.

This is why you'll see some powerlifter guys who are fat as hell.
They'll eat upwards of 4,000-5,000 calories a day, knowing that
they'll never work it off throught their training. And a lot of those
guys train 5-6 days a week. They purposely consume more energy than
their body needs in order to build muscle. Some don't care so much
about their bodyfat percentage and just gorge themselves, and as a
result, they pack on both muscle and fat. You'll have some who don't
want to get fat and will control their diets to minimize fat gain.

Fat loss starts in the kitchen every time. There are aspects of diet
planning that you can do to help promote fat loss, but it still boils
down to energy in/energy out. Your body must obey the laws of
thermodynamics.

If you wanna get big, you gotta eat big. Likewise, if you want to lose
fat, you gotta eat less.

About your diet, could you post what you eat on an average day? Do you
keep a food journel? You might not be eating as many calories as you
think you are.

---------- Original message ----------
From: AndyHancock <***@gmail.com>
Date: May 28, 10:19 pm

I've cross-posted to rec.martial-arts in hopes of getting a response,
and in order to get the perspective of those likely to lean toward
tone, and mix up strength training with aggressive stretching and
drilling in technique.

---------- Original message ----------
From: AndyHancock <***@gmail.com>
Date: May 27, 11:28 pm

I posted this on misc.fitness.misc without response, hoping for some
response here.

I've done quite a bit of reading on exercise physiology (hope I'm not
mangling official terminology too much here). I understand that the
first part of exercise burns glucose/glycogen, then fat starts to get
burned.

At http://caloriecount.about.com/exactly-happens-hungry-process-ft38999,
drcrystallee says that fat is burned when body is at rest. However,
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:x5VfT0QZApgJ:cftrainer.com/blog1
says:

GH [is a] fat burning [hormone]...To maximize fat loss...intense
anaerobic exercise...Reaching the anaerobic threshold...to improve
GH...Intense anaerobic exercise signals the body to release GH.
Long aerobic activities (jogging, etc) will NOT increase GH.

Then, flipping back once again,
http://www.womengetfit.net/page.aspx?pageid=e9d4719b-8dde-469f-81be-9abe6c0f4f1f
says "If you are looking to burn fat while doing cardio, remember to
keep the intensity level low, with going as high as 60-70% of your
max".

It almost seems like there are two modes of fat burning. One during
the exercise, and the other when not exercising (when the amount of
muscle mass you have is responsible the burning). However, the
conflicting statements above about intense anaerobic vs. 60-70% of max
(I presume VO2 max) both seem to apply to the period during exercise.

My preconception to date was that walking a kilometer has a higher
ratio of fat-to-sugar usage than running or more intense anaerobic
exercises. Regardless of its veracity, this is a bit of a digression
because the truly foggy part is what conditions cause preference for
fat versus muscle (especially when glucose/glycogen is used up).

My strategy has been pretty simple so far...eat chocolate bar before a
workout that consists of 1.5 hours of anaerobic, half hour stretching,
then 45 min of what might constitute aerobic (shadow boxing, other
skills/techniques-based conditioning). Consume plenty of fruits,
simple carbs, and meat in approx 1 hour after the workout. The
anaerobic focuses on a middle ground between bulk and tone; I am
trying to get smart about shifting just a tiny bit over to the bulk
side, but nothing ever changes. At
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/endurance-training/burning-fat-vs-burning-muscle-606415.html,
mammalspod implies that the lengthy workout could be the problem, but
at https://www.elitefitness.com/forum/diet-bodybuilding/does-your-body-burn-up-liver-glycogen-before-muscle-glycogen-126474.html,
fhg43 implies that exercising beyond 30 min causes fat (rather than
muscle) to burn.

Thanks for any thoughts on this. Note that I'm not looking for
extremes, or to be extremely cut/defined with too little fat. Just a
little more shift from fat to muscle, and a bit more volume in the
muscle.

[Shava_X]

On Thu, 28 May 2009 19:19:55 -0700, AndyHancock wrote:


Try talking to a few certified personal trainers. Make sure their
certifications are accredited (such as ACE, NSCA, ACSM, etc...).

i am certified by the NSCA.

The 60-70% is with respect to maximum heart rate. Really it should be
more like 70-85%. That is the aerobic zone. Past that You begin heavily
using anaerobic energy systems. Anaerobic energy systems do not burn
burn body fat only, only glucose.

If Your goal is fat loss, You build Your time in that zone up to 50-60
minutes. You do not want to go much past 60 minutes. That is to leave
Yourself a good buffer before 'hitting the wall'. That is when Your body
runs out of easily available carbs and begins breaking down protein to
convert into carbs. Your body cannot burn fat with out carbs.


Research into using high intensity anaerobic activities to burn fat is
fairly bleeding edge. How theses activities lead fat loss is not as
fully understood as some would like to claim. Two things that are clear
however is that:
1) The high intensity part is very important. You need to do more than
just step to the other side of the anaerobic threshold. Threshold
training is tame in comparison to what this should be.
2) The fat burning occurs AFTER the exercise.

There are two general theories as to how this works. One is that high
intensity interval training causes a unique hormonal response. The other
is that interval training, or any anaerobic training, produces a long(er)
lasting EPOC effect. EPOC stands for Excess Post-exercise Oxygen
Consumption. In short, Your metabolism remains elevated for a time after
exercise. For aerobic exercise, this might be few hours. For anaerobic
exercise, this can often be 12-36 hours. In rare case brought on by
exceptionally intense exercise, it has lasted up to 48 hours. The more
intense the exercise bout, (the further and harder You push into the
anaerobic zone) the longer the EPOC effect will last. The real cause is
probably a combination of those two.


Does that clear things up for You?
Do You have any other questions?

[AndyHancock]

I don't actually do aerobic training per se, though with the structure
of my workout described in the original post, I'm sure my aerobic
capacity is somewhat reasonable. As I mentioned, the end-phase has
some aerobic flavour.

The first 1.5 hours, however is basically HIT. Three sets of each
exercise, each pushed to failure. And I've bastardized the notion of
a set by dropping the weight immediately upon failure point, then
continuing the set. I repeat this 2-3 times before calling it a set.
I guess it's not too different from having a spotter help you expend
the last bits of energy by helping you do more reps beyond failure.
The reps/set depends on the exercise, but is about 10 to 20. My
impression is that it helps with speed.

At the first failure point of a set, I sometimes achieve an effect
similar to dropping weight by switching to an easier exercise that
recruits similar muscles, but perhaps with slightly different emphasis
across the various muscles. The intent is the same, to squeeze out
the last bit of energy.

Regarding the fat burning after exercising, I do see the effects of
high metabolism throughout the day after the exercise. Constantly
hungry, takes a long time in front of the computer to cool down, and
doesn't take much to warm back up again (even going down and up
several flights of stairs to get coffee). The love handles seem to
ignore this high metabolism, though. I try not to indulge too much in
simple carbs, but graze throughout the day. Mostly fruit, tuna
sandwich with whole-wheat bread, whole-wheat/tricolor pasta with
vegetables & meat (but sometimes a cranberry/orange muffin!).

One of the things that may unbalance the feeding of fat/muscle post-
workout is that it there is a wad of time after the HIT part of
training before wolfing down meat. My understanding is that the
window of 0 to 2 hours after the HIT is the best time to consume carbs
and protein. Well, I still got wads of working out and stretching
after the HIT part, then the commute home (during which I start mowing
down on fruits, which has *some* carbs). This is not ideal, but there
are years of reasons behind the current workout structure...so I've
decided to learn about the conditions under which carb/muscle is fed/
burned, then balance any modifications to the workout against the past
reasons for its current structure.

That 60-min wall you mention is not the first time I've heard it, and
it gets me concerned. Groan...I may have to change the workout
structure and schedule. In case it help illuminate where the problem
is, here is a synopsis of my workout:

* Chocolate bar at end of working day
* About 14 flights of stairs, down then up
* 10 min further warmup and stretching for upper body
* 25 min upper body HIT
* 15 min stretching for core exercises
* 25 min core exercises (front/back)
* 35 min core exercises (sides) interspersed with slight
modifications of upper body exercises above to really exhaust them
* 30 min of aggressive whole-body stretching for flexibility
* 40 min shadow boxing and technique-based drills (dynamic, much
bouncing for most of them)
* Sometimes, the last bit is slow martial arts forms rather than
technique drills
* 15 min whole-body cool-down stretches to prevent muscle stiffness
* Half hour getting stuff together, getting to bus stop
* Half hour mowing down on fruits on commute home
* Mowing down on meat & carbs (simple carbs, bread-like)
* Shower, with hot water spray on certain back muscles because it
seems to help prevent stiffness/soreness

P.S. Repaired the links in my original post below.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Shava_X <***@rocketNOSPAMmail.com> Date: May 30, 12:01
pm

Try talking to a few certified personal trainers. Make sure their
certifications are accredited (such as ACE, NSCA, ACSM, etc...).

i am certified by the NSCA.

The 60-70% is with respect to maximum heart rate. Really it should be
more like 70-85%. That is the aerobic zone. Past that You begin
heavily using anaerobic energy systems. Anaerobic energy systems do
not burn burn body fat only, only glucose.

If Your goal is fat loss, You build Your time in that zone up to 50-60
minutes. You do not want to go much past 60 minutes. That is to
leave Yourself a good buffer before 'hitting the wall'. That is when
Your body runs out of easily available carbs and begins breaking down
protein to convert into carbs. Your body cannot burn fat with out
carbs.

Research into using high intensity anaerobic activities to burn fat is
fairly bleeding edge. How theses activities lead fat loss is not as
fully understood as some would like to claim. Two things that are
clear however is that:
1) The high intensity part is very important. You need to do more
than just step to the other side of the anaerobic threshold.
Threshold training is tame in comparison to what this should be.
2) The fat burning occurs AFTER the exercise.

There are two general theories as to how this works. One is that high
intensity interval training causes a unique hormonal response. The
other is that interval training, or any anaerobic training, produces a
long(er) lasting EPOC effect. EPOC stands for Excess Post-exercise
Oxygen Consumption. In short, Your metabolism remains elevated for a
time after exercise. For aerobic exercise, this might be few hours.
For anaerobic exercise, this can often be 12-36 hours. In rare case
brought on by exceptionally intense exercise, it has lasted up to 48
hours. The more intense the exercise bout, (the further and harder
You push into the anaerobic zone) the longer the EPOC effect will
last. The real cause is probably a combination of those two.

Does that clear things up for You?
Do You have any other questions?

---------- Original message ----------
From: AndyHancock <***@gmail.com>
Date: May 28, 10:19 pm

I've cross-posted to rec.martial-arts in hopes of getting a response,
and in order to get the perspective of those likely to lean toward
tone, and mix up strength training with aggressive stretching and
drilling in technique.

---------- Original message ----------
From: AndyHancock <***@gmail.com>
Date: May 27, 11:28 pm

I posted this on misc.fitness.misc without response, hoping for some
response here.

I've done quite a bit of reading on exercise physiology (hope I'm not
mangling official terminology too much here). I understand that the
first part of exercise burns glucose/glycogen, then fat starts to get
burned.

At http://caloriecount.about.com/exactly-happens-hungry-process-ft38999,
drcrystallee says that fat is burned when body is at rest. However,
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:x5VfT0QZApgJ:cftrainer.com/blog1
says:

GH [is a] fat burning [hormone]...To maximize fat loss...intense
anaerobic exercise...Reaching the anaerobic threshold...to improve
GH...Intense anaerobic exercise signals the body to release GH.
Long aerobic activities (jogging, etc) will NOT increase GH.

Then, flipping back once again,
http://www.womengetfit.net/page.aspx?pageid=e9d4719b-8dde-469f-81be-9abe6c0f4f1f
says "If you are looking to burn fat while doing cardio, remember to
keep the intensity level low, with going as high as 60-70% of your
max".

It almost seems like there are two modes of fat burning. One during
the exercise, and the other when not exercising (when the amount of
muscle mass you have is responsible the burning). However, the
conflicting statements above about intense anaerobic vs. 60-70% of max
(I presume VO2 max) both seem to apply to the period during exercise.

My preconception to date was that walking a kilometer has a higher
ratio of fat-to-sugar usage than running or more intense anaerobic
exercises. Regardless of its veracity, this is a bit of a digression
because the truly foggy part is what conditions cause preference for
fat versus muscle (especially when glucose/glycogen is used up).

My strategy has been pretty simple so far...eat chocolate bar before a
workout that consists of 1.5 hours of anaerobic, half hour stretching,
then 45 min of what might constitute aerobic (shadow boxing, other
skills/techniques-based [drills]). Consume plenty of fruits, simple
carbs, and meat in approx 1 hour after the workout. The anaerobic
focuses on a middle ground between bulk and tone; I am trying to get
smart about shifting just a tiny bit over to the bulk side, but
nothing ever changes. At
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/endurance-training/burning-fat-vs-burning-muscle-606415.html,
mammalspod implies that the lengthy workout could be the problem, but
at https://www.elitefitness.com/forum/diet-bodybuilding/does-your-body-burn-up-liver-glycogen-before-muscle-glycogen-126474.html,
fhg43 implies that exercising beyond 30 min causes fat (rather than
muscle) to burn.

Thanks for any thoughts on this. Note that I'm not looking for
extremes, or to be extremely cut/defined with too little fat. Just a
little more shift from fat to muscle, and a bit more volume in the
muscle.

[Uncle bob]

Post by AndyHancock
I've done quite a bit of reading on exercise physiology (hope I'm not
mangling official terminology too much here).  I understand that the
first part of exercise burns glucose/glycogen, then fat starts to get
burned.

I would not worry about burning fat while exercising. Its more
important what the body does afterwards.

Post by AndyHancock
It almost seems like there are two modes of fat burning.  One during
the exercise, and the other when not exercising (when the amount of
muscle mass you have is responsible the burning).  

People think that increasing muscle mass will help burning calories
while resting. That is a common mistake.

You see, while its true that mucles burn calories, it would seem
logical that more muscles burn more calories. Again, that is a
mistake.

Why do muscles burn calories? Right. To keep our bodies at 37 degree
celcius. When you increase your muscle mass, the shape of the body
changes, and you get a different mass/surface ratio. The body becomes
more efficient at retaining heat, and you need less calories to stay
at 37 degrees.

Which is why ectomorps can eat all they want, without getting fat.
They have thin long arms and thin long legs, with a long narrow skull,
and a relatively short torso. So they lose heat quickly, because their
body is close to that of a cooling device.

Endomorphs are the opposite. They dont need much to stay at 27
degrees, yet they eat a lot, and get bigger and bigger.

Mesomorphs get fat when they are inactive. A little exercise prevents
that.

Post by AndyHancock
My preconception to date was that walking a kilometer has a higher
ratio of fat-to-sugar usage than running or more intense anaerobic
exercises.

Thats mistake. Running is a VERY different exercise than walking. You
always have 2 feet on the ground, when you run only one. Running a
mile will burn much more calories than walking. Slowing your pace is
best. Or ride a bike.

Post by AndyHancock
Thanks for any thoughts on this.  Note that I'm not looking for
extremes, or to be extremely cut/defined with too little fat.  Just a
little more shift from fat to muscle, and a bit more volume in the
muscle.

Do a workout that works the muscles. Try several sets of 5-8 reps. In
fact, you dont have to exercise AT ALL to lose weight. Its a matter of
calories in VS out.

If you come up short 500 Kcals each day, you will lose 1 kilo of fat
in 18 days. Without exercise.
Just make sure you get enough protein and fatty acids. You dont need
any carbs. Really.

--
UC

[Dan Fenwick]

As a new mum, what is the first thing you do/did every day?

[RonTheGuy]

Post by Dan Fenwick
As a new mum, what is the first thing you do/did every day?

Fitness is key.


Ron, the humblest guy in town.